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100 thoughts on “Full Auto at 1000m: The 7.92x41mm CETME Cartridge

  1. What I love about this channel is that you learn not just about firearms, but about engineering. In this case it's the old tale of great innovative idea thrown away in favor of something conventional. The exact same story is seen with hardware if we look at the conventional 8086 processors persisting over novel innovations.

    The bulk of western military forces today still use 5.56 NATO and 7.62 NATO with nothing on the horizon to replace those and the interesting part is that 2018 ammunition coming out of factories is better and cheaper to make compared to the same ammunition even 20 years ago. This means that anything that is set to replace those would have to be significantly better to justify decades of process optimization.

  2. So my question is, how much damage to a person would this projectile do? Compared to say, a normal lead 7.92×33 mm Kurz German round from WW2?

  3. Hey Ian ( Holy Gun-Jesus) I watch this lesson again, in this Movie, Video -whatever, There is over your right shoulder the most of a collapsing submaschingun. It is a variant of the famous MAT-49?

  4. Hi, one wonders what the terminal ballistics of this projectile would of bee! Would it have drilled a neat hole being long and high velocity or would it have become unstable and tumbled soon after impact and been a very effective round given a tumbling and breaking up long high velocity round would cause huge tissue damage. Its armour piercing ability I think would have been low! Thoughts?

  5. It would be very interesting to see modern testing of that cartridge…… because really given the ranges being used in afganistan and iraq the range is back in ideal but so is the idea of a still full auto capable cartridge……

  6. Once again, the yanks 7.62×51 ruins a potentially great rifle and shelves an innovative and advanced cartridge. They really did stall the arms industry for an untold length (that's still continuing).

  7. I've got several hundred rounds of the 7.62CETME ammo. It recoils something 7.62×39 plastic riot ammunition. My HK doesn't like it though and has a hard time running it

  8. So just like 280 British and the intermediate cartdridge FAL then…
    Good to see that one army general or whoever he was, managed to single-handedly destroy a lot of good ideas, not hold up their end of the FAL deal, and then "hey sorry guys, it seems an intermediate cartdridge is actually good. Now use this thing we made (.223) which is arguably worse than many other cartdriges designed 10 years earlier."

  9. somewhat similar story to the British 280 enfield bullpup………………..Engineers produce superior performance cartridge and rifle………….customer throws it away.

  10. I can only imagine how expensive it would have been to make that ammo… Would have been on the order of those supermatch turned-brass rounds for sure, not conducive to shooting enough to be competent.

    I'd guess that the 1000m requirement came from the idea of dealing with the Basques up in the mountains.

  11. How would this compare to the 6.5 Grendel in terms of accuracy, velocity and overall lethality? Would it make for a good military round for using in Afghanistan?

  12. If this was effective in a modern context, could this lead to Anglo-Afghan war type situation with the "Anglos" being heavily invested with an intermediate cartridge like 5.56, 5.45, x39? Or would practical accuracy overrule the 7.92's hypothetical advantage?

  13. g,,ee what a shame. tree things come to mind right away. 1 voss solved all the problems we wrestle with in the 223/6.5 conundrum velocity/ distance /accuracy/ penetration etc. in semi and full auto. 2 aberdeen wanted a short 30/06 but even for all its virtues 308 is still not 06, 3 creating an innovative ammuniti on projectile which could best the limits of military propellents of the day……………we should have paper clipped voss and his team, but we didn't, such is life.

  14. I wonder how this would penetrate armor. Also wow, this bullet sounds like a very expensive thing to make!

  15. The characteristics that the Spanish military wanted in that cartridge were based in an important way on the experience of the war in North Africa against the Moors. Long shooting distances and a weapon that will not weigh much under the scorching African sun. The bipod is designed precisely for those long shooting distances. A war in an open field, mainly deserts, ravines and mountains outside of urban environments. In the 50s Spain still possessed territories in what is now Morocco and Sahara.

  16. german engineering… typical perfect!
    Our supremacy in technology was also one of the reasons the allied began war with us…. 2 times!

  17. Something that I have heard about the FR-7 and FR-8 rifles is that they were proofed for 7.62 NATO and are not safe to shoot with higher pressure commercial .308. How true is this?

  18. As a spanish guy , with a father who perform military service (for me is not longer mandatory like in the past) I always listen to history's about the Cetme and it's durability .
    I don't even think it was so unique in terms of ballistic and design.

  19. If you could marry this bullet to a caseless cartridge….. something tells me that some spec-ops unit somewhere is using a modern version of this. 1000 meters w/ full auto capable w/ about half the recoil.

  20. The CETME Modelo 2 in 7.92×41 in full auto shooting targets at 1000 meters away would be a great experience.
    This is a fascinating story to me. Thank you very much.

  21. Spain was under a fascist dictatorship at the moment. They probably wanted the gun to assassinate unarmed civilians.

  22. I would rally like to have seen a rifle firing auto and hitting some thing at 1000 mm. to bad they didn't have some film clips….

  23. And finally these designs are currently being taken up as the basis for new designs of military cartridges. It is funny that Belgium accused Spain in the 1950s that these cartridges did not comply with the Geneva convention. Some Belgians still do not forgive Spain for the Duke of Alba. Pathetic.

  24. Well well. I wouldn't dismiss the spanish requirement as just "lacking combat experience".

    As much as you love 556 and say "but combat range is usually 300m top", not all of the military is the rifleman.
    You will still have vehicle-mounted machine guns, DMR, snipers etc. The usa military is still using 7.62 so now you have three cartridges for small arms: 9mm, 5.56, 7.62.
    There's a name for this: logistical fuckup.

    Somebody paid somebody to get everyone on 7.62 and they didn't want to run into possible supply problems maybe. ;P

  26. "Did you see those warriors from Hammerfell? they've got curved swords. curved swords!" sorry i couldn't resist after hearing "you can recognize the early CETME's by their curved magazines."

  27. I had a Spanish jungle Mauser 7.62 and 20 years ago they did tell me not to use full pressure 7.62 or .308 but I learned that from shotgun news before the internet

  28. In the Spanish army we called it "poplar" since the wood of the trimmings and the stock was of that type of wood.

  29. So why is no one bringing it back up
    I mean with modern day things like plastic and better optics
    It could really make for a very good rifle
    Especially in a bulpup configuration

  30. Guau
    Castellano joder
    Luego en América hacer lonas os salga de la polla
    Así se cada vez se me quiere preguntar algo un ejemplar de estos…se se joda

  31. Lo cojonudo es qe te dicen…""añade un comentario """ en castellano..
    Además….parece un chapurreao echo de despojos el inglés de los cojones

  32. I think with handloading this long bullet design could be worth it. You see cartidges that take long high bc bullets getting more popular. The 6.5 grendel and 6.5 creedmore (a wildcat version of the 7.62×39 & 762nato) for example. With aluminum core bullets you can make them longer without gaininh weight and thus get even more high bc bullets. The thing is you can only get so long of a bullet before you cannot run them anymore in a semiauto gun.


  33. Oh Germans we have a weird sense of humor but the tinkering and engineering is awsome. I love the little miniature stuff https://youtu.be/2mNhxi_D5kE

  34. Am engineer, have been handed plans where you look at it and the group stares and silently says, it's pretty, but how the hell do we make it not fall over?

  35. Thank you for the video, history of my country. We call it the "Chopo"

    Only reason I can see to discontinue that cartridge and adopting the NATO is in case of war getting supplies from third countries.

  36. For anyone who is educated on this cartridge, how would this compare to the 6.5 Grendel? Would it be worth reviving this cartridge so that it could compete, or does the Grendel perform just as good or better than this? It’s a scary looking round.

  37. The old Mausers in good condition didn't have problems. Imagine 1891 Argentine Mausers 7.65×53.5 firing the Norma ammunition, which they did all the time.

  38. Why do I get the feeling that whoever wrote the subtitles knew nothing about the subject matter nor thought to ask AND they were never reviewed by Ian.

  39. So thats why the CETME Ameli MG84 looks like an MG3…. Had Germans working for them.
    And I see the Mp5 in that prototype rifle.

  40. I could understand why despite most combat being shorter distances, having something with long range capability would be useful up in the Spanish mountains.

  41. i'm surprised the Swiss didn't try to steal this idea. It seems right up their alley, though they don't mind the heavier rifles

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